506-05-07 Public discussion on Miller's Isle

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Public Discussion on Miller's Isle
RL Date	November 13, 2008
Players	Lots!
Location	University Auditorium
Crossroads Time and Weather
IC Date	May 07, 506
Season	Spring

University Auditorium - Plaza del Arte - Keeper East - Village

The auditorium is an expansive building with many rows of seats for watching performances or lectures. A stage is set up at the front of the room, the floor made of rich, deep colored wood with a surrounding frame of gilded gold engravings that subtly depict aspects of art from the various Isles. Curtains of royal blue are pulled back with golden cord though when they are closed, the crest of Gateway is embroidered handsomely on them. Players: Duchess Catelyn Pemberton Princess Eleanor Mathis (idle 7m) Briana

Objects: OOC Lecture Info

Obvious exits: Plaza del Arte <PDA>

Princess Eleanor is sitting with Catelyn. She's calm it seems. Knights are to the front and the back. The princess true to her word of if things get ugly she's going to have enforcers. But for now things are quiet. "I think you doing just fine, Duchess. Just as any leader should."

Pemberton holds up the periscope to his face, bumping them against his glasses and muttering quietly to himself. Methodically he puts the periscope down, then removes his glasses and then puts the periscope back up to his face. A moments pause is taken as he blinks through the peep hole, takes it away and blinks again. A sigh is expelled as he holds the periscope up with one hand and then his glasses up to the view finder with another, "Mount for glasses." he mutters to himself turning his body this way and that to test it's reach only to find himself focusing on Briana or some part of her anatomy as he turns on his seat to follow her path to her own chair, "ello!" he offers in greeting pulling the periscope away and juggling with glasses and invention so he can see again. "Been a while, 'ow are you?"

Stepping in from outside, with a wary glance at the Knights, comes Briana: tall, wiry and dressed in dark blue, she regards the current debators curiously, and then sidles along to the chairs at the back of the auditorium. She curtseys to the various dignitaries first, courtly-like, and then settles into a chair with a somber expression on her features. She seems prepared to settle and listen, but shows no signs of stretching her interest to a point where she would actually participate.

Briana nods politely to Pemberton, but does not seek to actively engage him in conversation.

Ethan arrives from the Plaza del Arte. Ethan has arrived.

"Thank you for your support in this, Highness," Catelyn offers a warm smile to the Princess before she gets up out of her seat to look at those who've begun to gather. She doesn't take to the stage, not yet anyway, instead choosing to remain on the auditorium floor as she speaks, "I'm glad to see that some of you have decided to come by. There's no real structure to this discussion thus far, simply an open forum. If any of you have questions or thoughts, you're free to express it at any time so long as it's done in a respectful fashion."

Eleanor shifts in her seat. Eyes on Catelyn when she gets up to speak. Taking in a breath and letting it out. Only now does she shift in her position to look and see who is all here.

Rising to her feet, Briana looks around cautiously, perhaps making sure that there's no-one else who wishes to speak first, and then turns her regard back to the Duchess; her expression is still somber as she raises her right hand slowly, indicating her desire to comment. Straight-backed and formal in her posture, she looks more like a soldier requesting permission to interrupt than a lady dressed for court..

Pemberton looks like he's not about to let Briana off that easily and opens his trap to further engage his fellow draughten only to shut his cake hole when the Duchess gets up to speak. Full attention is on Catelyn as he sits more prim and proper, waiting for the debate to begin.

Ethan walks in slowly. He gives a smile to those who have gathered. A bow is offered the the Duchess and the Princess before he takes a seat. He doesn't say much, merely taking out a notebook and writing in it as he keeps his attention fixed.

Catelyn's eyes roam over those assembled before she focuses on Briana. She nods to the younger woman before saying, "Yes, Miss?" Ethan recieves a small nod as he arrives and claims a seat, though her attention is quickly back on Briana.

Eleanor sees Ethan and gives him a smile but her attention is defintly caught on Catelyn and now Briana. One of Eleanor's knights makes a scoffing noise but really he's just here for background.

Oksana arrives from the Plaza del Arte. Oksana has arrived.

Briana lifts a hand to her chest and says, "I am Briana Helygen, born of thy Island though it has been long since I walked there." She pauses to draw a breath and then continues, "Tis a simple thing, your grace, and yet a matter of serious gravity," Briana says in a tone designed to carry about those in the auditorium. "By thine own birthright and the lineage of thy forebears, thou art granted authority over the Isle of Draught. It has been thus for centuries; why shouldst thou entertain the notion that now that situation hath changed? It is kind of thee, to be certain, to permit such discussion and listen, but thou hast advisors for that, individuals of keen mind and tacit diplomatic skills. Art thou not inviting further disruption to thine blood-given authority?"

Oksana steps into the auditorium, curtseying first, since she knows there are definitely titled people about. Then she looks for somewhere to sit and take notes close to where people are talking, that she might hear everything well.

Khalani arrives from the Plaza del Arte. Khalani has arrived.

Mathis sits near the front, listening to the question, making notes and having held onto the seats next to him in case someone shows up.

It's probably a good bet on who Mathis has saved a seat for, and when Khalani arrives to the auditorium and works her way down towards where he's seated there's few surprises. A quick curtsey for the duchess and princess both before the young baroness settles into a seat next to him, a murmur between the young couple. Her guard, in Amphorae livery, waits by the door, keeping an eye on the room as a whole.

Mathis leaning in to murmur back, the young man shakes his head quickly, a bob of his head towards the back where Briana is.

"That is a good question, and I can certainly understand how one might view it in that regard," Catelyn smiles at Briana politely. "To invite discussion is not to invite disruption and discord. When I listen to my advisors, they speak for the people of Draught, the desires of the people, what they believe is the best, but what harm is there in hearing these things directly from the mouths of those that must live with these decisions? Surely there will be differing opinions, but that is simply the way of life. There are differing opinions among my own advisors of what I should do, and ultimately I will be the one to make the decision, but I would see myself as well informed as I can be on such a crucial matter. Since the people have expressed the need to voice their opinion on this, I will allow them the opportunity to do so rather then let that need turn to resentment because their voices were not heard. That would be an invitation for discord."

Oksana gets up from her seat and rooting around in her pack for writing supplies so she might curtsey to the arriving Baroness.

Ethan stands and bows toward Kahalani as she enters. As the Duchess speaks up with her answer, he smiles warmly obviously pleased with the answer as he continues to write in his notebook, eyes following the paper silently, reading over what he wrote.

Briana listens carefully to the reply and nods once. "Tis a fair and generous approach to the concern," she says, with eyes respectfully downcast. "By thee leave, I shall depart.. forasmuch as curiousity doth consume me, still greater is my sense of disturbance at this gentle hearing." She curtseys again to the nobility present and moves along back toward the exit, her expression just as somber as when she arrived.

Briana stands and leaves the Right Back Seating. Briana leaves the auditorium to return to the plaza. Briana has left.

Pemberton rises to his feet after the Duchess has spoken to lend his own thoughts to the matter, "The issue was raised publically and such, needs to be addressed publically. If her grace were to have addressed the concerns of the poster privately and discretely the impact of that meeting and those words may not trickle down to all who read them. This way she can be sure to reach all whom read the posts and cared enough to be affected by them or made intrest by them. Personally I think it's a great idea. She still retains the right and authority to do with the holdings as she sees fit, but puts out the fire of posted discourse. That and I do love a good chin wag and debate." a bright smile flashed before he takes his seat.

"To a great degree, Draught's strengths come from it's people. We do not have the natural resources that other isles enjoy, but we do have our people." Khalani lifts her voice, having only barely settled enough to catch her bearings. "Conversations, debate, discussion. The ability to formulate theories, to discuss them, to play in the hypothetical and the what ifs have given Draught, all of Draught, so much. Discussion and debate is not a challenge to leadership, it is what makes us strong."

Catelyn nods to both Pemberton and Khalani in appreciation, "We are a unique isle in that. It would do no good to have an isle of intellectual people if their leadership refuses to listen to them. I hope in this, we can once again solidify even when our opinions differ, that we can stand strong and proud together." Her gaze sweeps the room again, asking, "Has anyone else anything to say? Thoughts? Questions?"

"What has been discussed so far?" Oksana asks, unabashed. The Duchess is here for questions, she's going to ask questions. "How do you believe the Purists would affect Miller's Isle by being allowed to seat upon the baronial seat?"

From a seat in the back, Ethan stands up. His voice comes out strong, and his words flow smoothly, "Your Grace, these accusations, rumors. They haven't come from anyone in particular. It is obvious the writing is from more than one person. I have made my input, though perhaps less than most think given the position I'm in. So my question is simple really." He looks up, "I'm not about to accuse you, nor anyone of doing anything without reason, or even doing anyhting at all. So I would ask you, if you are comfortable, to discuss exactly what in these rumors should be discussed. I mean is there a chance that this Purist could be made a Baroness? Is this something you would support?" He pauses a moment, "Of course you are the Duchess and we have no right to hear anything you wish not discuss. But I believe it is hard to have an open discussion without knowing where it is we stand."

"Thus far the only discussion has been the implications of allowing this discussion in the first place," Catelyn informs Oksana. "As for how it would affect Miller's Isle to have a Purist in a position of leadership? I believe that were a suitable Purist put into the position, they would strive to fill the position to the best of their ability, armed with the knowledge that they were leading a people that are for the advancement of technology in the Empire. That to disdain it would be to see that barony harmed, and that is something I will not tolerate, nor is it something I believe they would do."

Catelyn's gaze then moves to Ethan, "I would not say that it is obvious the letters penned and posted are from different sources. As none have had the courage to sign their names, nor to approach me directly, there is no way of knowing who has written them or just who they speak for. It could very well be that this person is not even of Draught and simply seeks to sew discontent among our people, and that is also something I will not tolerate. I am open for discussion on this topic, and if you desire to ask is it possible that a Purist be placed into a position of power in Miller's Isle? Certainly, it is possible, by rights of birth and blood a Purist is among the several names under consideration. Is the decision made? Not yet."

Dorian arrives from the Plaza del Arte. Dorian has arrived.

Dorian slips into the meeting late, having had to finish up a few classes first. He makes silent bows as appropriate, hoping not to disrupt any conversation as he moves around the circumference of the room toward a seat.

"Do you believe that placing a Purist of a certain path might harm the leadership of Miller's Isle above that of another path?" Oksana then asks openly, studying Catelyn, though certainly not with any amount of disrespect. "For instance, if one /is/ of the Path of the Innocent, how would they even begin to relate to the large alchemical population?"

Princess Eleanor is quiet. Listening as the others speak. As far as anyone is concerned she's a neutral statue.

"You must also take into consideration that though the Baron and Baronesses of Draught are all unwed, marriage could be a condition of their taking this position and if they are found lacking in any way, I am certain we could find a sutible match for them to meet those needs," Catelyn tells Oksana. "And putting someone of any path of Purisim would be much like putting an inventor in the position rather than an alchemist. An inventor, more often than not, does not know how to create alchemical compounds even if they may use them with their inventions. Would you be concerned of an inventor, or an astronomer, a cartographer, if any one of them were placed into the position instead even though they might not be able to relate to an alchemist?"

"While.. I recognize that there is a certain number of assumptions and accepted norms about Purists.. I would perhaps put forth the comment that it is naive to make assumptions about all who follow one religious path." Khalani speaks thoughtfully, musingly. "Each are individuals, even within their religious choices."

"I believe it would be folly to think that if a Purist was Baron or Baroness of Miller's Isle they would put Baron Ethos before Duchess Draught." Mathis adds quietly.

Oksana shakes her head. "No," she answers directly. "It would not be such a concern. For even if they did not understand alchemy, they would not necessarily frown upon the use of it, either."

"I actually agree with the Baroness. In fact, the Baroness Lancaster, before she died was on the path to become a Purist. Her mother, my aunt, was a Purist. However, she gave up the teachings when she came to the isle. She found them too constricting. However, even after leaving purism she was close to the teachings." Ethan pauses, "I don't really think Purism itself is that large of an issue. However, there is something I would be concerned about." He looks up, adding softly, "It's hard to put yourself behind an idea. I'm sure many here know my claim to the Barony, as small or as large as it may be, it doesn't matter. My intent became public and..." He sighs, "Every words I say can be used for and against me, so when I speak now, I truly speak as a citizen. I don't mean to prove a point, or to say what is right. I am asking a question, and I trust your answers, Your Grace." He nods slowly, "So that being said, I think the largest consern in my mind would be that the person in question was not born to our Barony. She is closely tied to the Ethos family, I would venture to say closer tied to them than the Lancasters on the weight of how and where she was raised. However, that's really not my place to say." He laughs, "But the concern is that the line was broken. I was loyal to the Lancasters, much like I'm sure every other citizen of Miller's Isle in this city was. That line is broken now. There is a new line that needs to be established now. Isn't it fair to say it should be a concern to take someone who was not born of our Barony, is loyal and part of a family that, yes is purist but further more has nearly become the pinnacle and definition of purism in our Empire... Not to metion the link to the Baron of Ethos... and put them in power in a place that in many ways is alien to those teachings? Obviously the teachings are not clashing, they can coexist in some ways. However, I bring to example the idea of the testing fields. A place where people literally /kill/ themselves for the progress of our world. I do wonder if someone from that background would understand and furthermore, support this lifestyle."

"That's only if there is truth to the notion now that Purists do indeed despise alchemy," Catelyn tells Oksana, "And I have found through experience that they do not. You are also assuming that the leadership, the Baron or Baroness, would have a vice grip and absolute say on what the inventors or alchemists did within that Barony. That is not the case. While it is demanded that they work within the laws laid down, they do not have the right in that position to step in and tell people they can no longer continue working on advancing any aspect that the Barony produces, not only because that would bring harm to Miller's Isle, but because that harm would stretch beyond Miller's Isle and attract the attention of not only the other Baronies within Draught, but my attention, the attention of the leadership of other Isles. Do you believe that anyone who did that could truly hold their position for long?"

Oksana shakes her head a bit. "I did not say they despise alchemy. I am merely pointing out that a Purist on the Path of the Innocent would indeed frown upon the use of alchemical substances. They do not even touch alcohol. I am not judging them for their views, but asking on if it would be a feasible match. Honestly, I do not know what path the Purist in question is upon. My apologies if my question seemed disparaging of their faith."

Khalani cannot help but give a soft little laugh. "Absolute say upon what is thought and invented and researched in one's Barony. No.. oh providence.. no. Not even anything close."

Ethan shakes his head, "With all due respect, I think it's very clear the lady did not thank any such thing. Her question was well put." He sighs, "For all the different views, we shouldn't try to make people seem like they said something they didn't. That would just be rude, and against what this meeting was about. Which is giving people a chance to voice their concerns. Sometimes it's hard to speak up, I don't want to see such a lovely thing become harder still." He shrugs, quieting.

Catelyn looks to Ethan then, "The place of birth does not always dictate understanding. There are many who hail from Ethos and reject their traditions, their beliefs, just as there are those from Miller's Isle who chose to walk the path of the Purist. There will be questions of capacity to perform well in the job no matter where you are from, no matter who you are. I can assure you that I will select the person or people who are best qualified for the position, those who will continue to strive towards advancement, to do otherwise would be detrimental to the entire Isle."

The Duchess then looks to Oksana, "I do not believe that you are being at all disparaging to their faith, Miss Zakov. The choice not to imbibe, be it alcohol or potion, is a personal decision. If someone is incapable of seeing beyond that, beyond the personal choices they make in their life, they are not suitable to lead, be they Purist or not. It is that simple."

Oksana nods to Catelyn and to Ethan, apparently appeased by both answers given to her. "Thank you," she states, then looks down to jot a couple of notes, falling silent. At least for the moment.

Khalani mms to Ethan. "It is a discussion, the clarification.. the give and take of establishing understanding is part of the conversation. I hope all in the room understand that it is reasonable and expected that if one's words are misinterpreted, that clarification should come. Not to be difficult, not to put words in anyone's mouth, but to confirm that the assumptions made are accurate. That the givens are consistant between all in the conversation."

Mathis nod slowly in agreement with Khalani. "It's not a place for attacks, but for discussions."

Ethan smiles towards Okasana, giving her a bright smile. He turns towards Khalani then and says softly, "I could agree with you more." He lowers his head politely. He then turns towards the Duchess, "I can accept and I do believe you are right for choosing who is best for the job. However, Politics has always been a strange area, especially to those outside of it. I think it would be a mockery of the intelligence of our isle to say there wouldn't be concerns that such a move would be for political reasons. Cynicism, maybe." He shrugs, "Honestly, I have a bit more on that subject but I truly believe it's best left to a private conversation when you have time." He thinks over that for a moment, "But that being said, since you are choosing a Baron, or Baroness, or pair as you've mentioned, based on quality. Then perhaps it would be reassuring to those gathered to know what those qualities are. What you believe is important, since it is such a hard decision. Because whomever you choose, theoretically is a bloodline that should continue indefinitely."

"The assumption made that the placement of a Purist in the position of Baroness Miller's Isle is only a political move might have more validity to it were she not also of the Lancaster line," Catelyn tells Ethan with a small smile. "Had someone been selected at random simply because they were of the Purist faith, certainly one could look upon that and see there were political dealings to get them to that point, but as the woman in question shares the Lancaster blood as well, and has the same claim as yourself, it would be just as easy to believe that it were a political move were her name discarded simply because of her faith. As for the qualities looked for in a noble? You certainly want someone who is decisive and yet capable of listening at all times, regardless of whether or not the opinions given are the same as their own. Someone who is able to look to the future and make plans, but does not forget to pay attention to the present and is knowledgeable of the past. Someone who will know and love the people of Miller's Isle, who will fight for them. Someone who will put the needs of the Barony before their own. That is the sort of person I seek."

Mathis is taking notes, heavy notes at Catelyn' commentary. Pay him no mind, really.

Ethan nods, "I didn't mean to suggest it is Political, as I've said I've heard and trust your words. I merely say I can see how people of the isle would think that, and can share in their concern." He writes down a bit more in his book and looks up with a bright smile, "And I think you have the perfect idea of what you should have the a Baron ro Baroness." He shifts his weight a second, "I think that's really all I have to ask, I have a few more questions, but I think they are best left to a private conversation when you have time, your Grace."

Oksana does keep taking notes as well and with some practice.

Mya heard from word of mouth about this meeting, and being from Tinker's Bench herself, she wanted to make sure she got here! OK, so she's a little late. She takes some deep breaths, her bodice heaving as she leans forward, her hands on her knees as she catches her breath. "Yer Grace," she says, in between breaths, "Can anyone just answer questions or is this just a noble thing?"

Khalani isnt taking notes, she's merely watching and listening and adding her own two coppers here and there. "At a certain point, politics is life. It is so firmly entwined in one's life that to call anything non political seems.. almost unthinkable." She mmms thoughtfully, listening to her leige's litany of what makes a good leader. A turn of her head at Mya's question and there's a smile. "It is an open floor. All are welcome to question, discuss, debate."

Catelyn offers a small nod and smile at Ethan, "Very well, I am sure that we can discuss any further concerns you have in private soon." There's a moment in which she looks to both Khalani and Mathis, an appreciative smile directed their way before that gaze continues on, "Does anyone else-- Ah, anyone is welcome to come and speak, Miss."

Mya finally catches her breath, and does a proper bow to the Duchess. "Thanks, Yer Grace," she says, "So, I was wonderin' why the Purists seem to be getting into positions of power lately. Ya know, The Lockes is a great family from Tinker's Bench, been there for generations. They're tinkerers, and I couldn't think of anyone more qualified to lead a barony full of tinkerers than one that actually knows the business himself. So I'm just wonderin' what makes the Purist Lady so much better than Master Locke, here. Cause rumor has it, ya done made up your mind already."

Blink.. blink, "Your Grace.." Ethan speaks up softly, "I think I would atleast like to say that I did not spread such a rumor nor did I..." He laughs, obviously finding it funny and surprising all at once, "Ah, well I trust you to see the difference between people."

Lockler arrives from the Plaza del Arte. Lockler has arrived.

The frown that crosses Mathis's face is only there for a moment before it's dismissed in favor of more note taking is done. "I would think if the Duchess had made up her mind, there would be no need for missives posted in public places but the announcement itself." he says, giving a warm upturn of his lips.

"The funny thing about rumors is that so often, they contain very little truth amid the speculation and outright lies," Catelyn tells Mya with an easygoing smile. "I have in no way suggested, expressed, or even hinted that Miss Dhaval has any superior qualifications to Master Locke here, but neither is she inferior. While there are tinkers within Miller's Isle, that is hardly the only profession to be found within that Barony. You will find people of all professions, of all lifestyles there. As stated before, profession does not automatically qualify a person or make them superior for the position, it only means that they have a good understanding of one aspect within that Barony. Being a Baron or Baroness takes so much more, as I am sure the Baroness Amphorae can attest to." She laces her fingers before her and nods to Mathis, "Were my mind made up on this matter, an announcement would have been made already."

Lockler comes moving in clearly late to the whole thing and blinks as he glances around and then offers a bow to the Duchess as he considers a moment eyes shifting from person to person quickly, "Sudden meetings can be hard to get to on time." Mostly to himself as he moves closer to listen on the whole thing, "Not finalized?"

Khalani resists the urge to tuck her feet up under her as she settles back in her seat, only barely as she gives a little laugh at Mya's direct question. There's a nod as she's mentioned directly. "Amphorae is best known for our healers, and while I was born to the position of heir of the barony, and the child of a healer, I am not a healer myself. Nor an alchemist as my father was. I am an artist.. although first and foremost I am Amphorae's Baroness."

Mya bows her head respectfully at the Duchess. "I understand that rumors can be false, Your Grace," she says, "But often there is a hint of truth in them. Just enough so that people take the rumor seriously. I'm just sayin', MOST of the people in Tinker's Bench either or tinkers themselves, or have tinkers in their family. Hell, my family has been in that barony since we can remember. My Dad's a tinker, mom's an alchemist, both brothers are tinkers and alchemists, too. So, beggin' your pardon, Your Grace, but a lot of folks in Tinker's Bench are gonna be a might upset, and I think rightfully so, if the Barony is handed over to someone who doesn't know cra... doesn't know much about it." She then acknowledges Khalani and Mathis, giving them a slight bow. "Thanks for your input, Yer Excellency. And Master Cardiff," she says.

"And if the Baroness had a ten year old son or daughter, or if Baronet Lancaster had survived, and been with Baronet Soranus, Miss Gylendhals?" Mathis asks her polietly. "It would be the same situation. Her Grace cannot hope to please everyone just by chosing from within, she must realize what is best for the Barony and the Duchy and the Isles as a whole and not just what may look like a good idea at that moment. Long term vision. Not today.. but five years, ten years, fifty years from now. " Said quietly, he looks back into his notes.

Mathis then uhms, blushing. "Sorry Your Grace." he adds quickly.

"I agree, it would be short sighted to say every citizen is a tinkerer is short sighted." Ethan laughs, "I'm not even an inventor, really. I toy with it. However, mostly I invest. I think the only help it could possibly be is to have an understanding of the local economy. However, you could then make claim that a ship builder has just as much knowledge." He shrugs, "However, this is really the worry I was speaking of. Just because it may be unfounded, or evne false at some times. It's impossible to ignore." He breathes out a sigh, "Which is why I'm glad these rumors arose, just to give this opportunity, so maybe citizens can ebb their concerns." He then turns towards Mathis, "And you're correct it is long term. However, you can't predict the future. We've established that there are different degrees of Purist. It could easily be said that putting a Purist in the position means that even if she is good for the isle, and he son is.. who's to say down the road there wouldn't be one who was against it." He chuckles, "Not that I have that concern, I merely mean that every person has the potential to breed a child that is good or bad. The future is unpredictable."

"But isn't long term the whole issue here? Policies themselves. I don't think its a fear of hey here I am no more tinkering or inventing. Its here I am continue as you are while I write up this policy here slowly limiting that aspect, and then that aspect. We have a fear of somebody moving in who has a belief against what the barony focuses on most. Would Ethos ever support a Baron from Millers Isle? I would like to think they would have the same disagreements if not more pronounced." <OOC> Lockler says, "Erp I claim that!"

Oksana presses her lips together tightly, likely to keep herself from saying anything at the moment.

Princess Eleanor remains silent. But she's attenively listening. This is Catelyn's night. Far be for her to disturb it.

Khalani frowns a little, thoughtful. "I am having trouble with the assumptions that the Baronies within Draught are to be at odds. That Ethos' policies should impact Miller's Isle any more than Ethos' policies impact Amphorae. Or Destine. Even to share religious beliefs.. there is much in Amphorae.. most notably the drugs that we are well known for, that is not to the personal tastes of the Purists belief. From what I understand. To dissuade that from Amphorae would be.. harmful for Draught as a whole."

"The Baronials discuss the matters that make them different often.. but it's those differences and that ability to discuss it that brings them all together as a whole." Mathis says in agreement. "Things.. well, they may not all agree, but I'd rather be with Draught than other places I've seen when it comes to the coherency of the court."

"I would have to beg to differ that most people in Tinker's Bench are tinkers," Catelyn answers both politely and firmly. "Tinker's Bench houses the testing fields, it has the shipyards, villages with taverns keepers, inn keepers, healers, alchemists, it is a veritable mixture of all people from the Isle. While there may be a larger number if tinkers in that one place than any other on the rest of the Isle, anyone would be hardpressed to say that almost all the citizens of Tinker's Bench were tinkers. In addition to that, Pyria neighbors with the school of science, only adding to the differing pasts and future careers of the people in Miller's Isle."

Catelyn looks to Lockler then, "As to the policies, as was mentioned before, anyone who took the seat of Baron or Baroness would well understand that they have no rights to restrict the advancement of the Isle unless someone were operating beyond the law. I will not allow someone to strip away the future of Draught, no matter their personal beliefs. If a person cannot see beyond their personal decisions to decide what is right, no matter who they are, they are not fit to lead."

"I agree with you, Baroness." Ethan smiles, "I think it's more just human nature, and there isn't anything wrong with it." He shrugs, "Why do people worry about keeping their name to a lordship, why do citizens hope for sons? To keep their legacy." He shrugs, "Good or bad, can you really fault citizens for whiching to know their leaders came from and are of their lands? I don't."

"Why does it matter if a Lancaster is from Draught or Guardian if they are both Lancasters of the same blood, if you use that logic, Master Locke?" Mathis asks.

"Because how does a person raised upon Guardian really know the people of Draught?" Oksana asks on the tails of Mathis's question.

"I'm not disputing that." Khalani shakes her head to Ethan. "Of course parents want a legacy for their children, for themselves. I am back to having trouble with the assumption that to hold to Purist beliefs personally makes a person unable to see a larger picture for others. That to make a personal choice blinds them to all other perspectives." She glances from Oksana to Mathis and leaves him to answer that question himself.

Ethan nods towards Oksana, "And furthermore. I am a Locke, Cynara is a Dhaval. We are not Lancasters. Honestly, if there was a lancaster sibling alinve, even in Pais for all it matters. He would have higher right than either of us." He nods slowly, "The line is broken. Whomever takes this Barony is going ot have to establish a strong leadership. My point was that someone who lives a similar life in similar lands is someone than many believe is more able." He adds softly, "I'm not saying I share this view. This is what makes it hard. Because of the position I'm in, everything I say is for or against myself. I am merely trying to explain why Ibelieve there are concerned citizens."

Mya looks over at Khalani and Mathis, as they answer her questions before the Duchess has a chance. "Ya know, this is why regular folks like me don't ever get involved in political debates," she says, "You nobles think your opinion is better, and righter, than us peons." She's obviously frustrated at how everyone here, except Ethan and that other fella, seem to be in the Purists' corner. "I'll say one thing, though. You go ahead and appoint some Purist to our Barony, Duchess. Who gives a shit about what the actual people who live there think?" Yeah, she's a tad upset. She gives a curt bow, and then turns on her heel and leaves.

"If I did not care for your opinion, Miss," Catelyn calls to the departing Mya, "I would not be standing here today to hear the thoughts and concerns of others."

Lockler offers a faint smile, "I may not have been to Millers Isle where I hail from years ago. Yet to the people we are getting that unknown. If the person you are selecting you are sure will keep the ideals, hopes, and values of the people they are to represent and lead. The concerns are clear, a fear of a change in their way of life Your Grace." A raise of his eyebrows to Mathis as he considers, "If you go by name alone then yes you find the circularness in the logic, if you go by what they stand for and what they represent, then no. We are different then the other isles because we do have a difference of values from the baronies. Ethos is not the same as Amphore, nor the same again as Millers Isle. Each area has a very unique set of values and even culture does it not?"

There's no fists thrown and Eleanor is not in danger so her knights do not stop Mya from departing. But one in particular makes sure to take in a eyeful of her.

Khalani sighs softly, watching Mya leave. "Clearly not entirely in the same state of mind about open discussion and sharing of ideas. Every Baron or Baroness is an unknown. Even if they inherit down a clean line of succession, each person is different. I am not my father, nor is Baron Ethos his father, nor Baroness Destine her late husband. Each bring their own thoughts, visions, hopes for their lands to it."

"Every new noble is an unknown," Catelyn agrees with Khalani. "Truth is found in service, not promises, not hopes. Regardless of who is selected, their worth will not be determined until they are thrown into the proverbial fire and tested." She gives a quiet chuckle, "I will not fault a person for passion, nor will I respond in anger should someone get overwrought or zealous tonight. This is a delicate topic for many, this I understand well."

Lockler glances to Khalani as he considers, then glances back to Catelyn, "Though I don't think the unknown is the issue here, it is the known that is. Reiterations of such are not addressing the underlying concerns are they not Your Grace?" he offers with a slow shake of his head, "Again it is a perceived conflict of values and ideals of the person proposed and of the lands they are being proposed for. Honestly I have yet to hear anything that truly addresses those concerns. We have had discussion of names, unknowns and so forth."

"Not in the slightest. She's concerned, everyone on Miller's Isle is concerned.. I'd be lying if I didnt say that the other baronies are concerned.. or at the very least keenly interested in who our next peer might be." Khalani nods to Ethan emphatically. "We all care for our homes, be it on a larger scale or just the patch of land that is where we lay our heads at night and where our families grow and thrive." She looks to Lockler than, a quirk of her head. "The concerns that the religious beliefs of a leader would be imposed, blatently or subtly, upon the barony as a whole?"

"But it has been addressed," Catelyn answers Lockler, "Any person, regardless of of which Barony it is, must be capable of seeing beyond their own personal ideals, their own personal beliefs, and be capable of seeing what is best for the Barony. If anyone cannot do so, if anyone believes they can come in with an agenda that will do harm to one of my Baronies, they are wrong and it will not be allowed. The freedoms that those of Miller's Isle have now are what they will continue to have unless I, or their Majesties, are given a very good reason why they should not have them."

Lockler smiles ever so faintly at that, "Then the only thing that will tell the truth of the matter is time. We can only hope the words given match the actions taken. I have lived on the streets pretty much all my life. Yet looking at it, you are asking such a person to not act on their core beliefs when acting in their duties. It is going to be a very difficult challenge for said individual to run lands against what they personally believe. We can hope for the best, your grace. Thank you for your time." he offers with a formal bow.

Khalani blinks a moment at Lockler and then she can't help but give a soft little laugh. "Yes. That's about the exact sum up of the joys of being nobility. You do indeed give up some of your personal life and beliefs for the greater good and one's duty."

"..and you do it happily." Mathis adds quietly.

Oksana looks over at Mathis with no emotion whatsoever showing on her features. She studies him for a moment before her gaze returns to Catelyn.

"Thank you for sharing your thoughts," Catelyn tells Lockler with a warm smile. She nods to Khalani then, "Yes, indeed. Sacrifice is something that a noble must accept as a part of their life, because it is no longer only their life that is in their hands, but those of the people who live in the lands they hold. If that is something a person cannot accept, again, they are not fit for rule."

There's no words coming from Eleanor but she's listening and a flicker of something passes her features at the most recent of words and the talk of duty.

Lockler shrugs his shoulders with a smile, "I am aware, but I know it helps a great deal more when you have more acceptance of the lands you cover then those you don't. I may live a simpler life, but I am far from lacking in education or understanding. I understand the sacrifices, and I understand the person in consideration has faithfully served Draught. Yet there will be a lot of those who resent it and are afraid of it. It will not be a easy transition."

Athar has really been here a while, listening to what people are saying, speaking quietly to people he knows.

"I have no doubt of your education or intelligence," Catelyn assures Lockler with a small smile. "And you are quite right. This transition will not be an easy one, no matter who is put in the role."

Lockler holds up a finger as he smiles at that glancing to the Duchess, "I will help as I can. What the people need more then anything else, is a chance to get to know the person. A sudden here this is who it is going to be won't help. I would suggest a tour of the lands and a meet and greet. Letting the person get asked and answered. If you havn't considered the idea already Your Grace."

"If I might pose a thought into the mix.. one that I do not wish to be misinterpreted, but put out in a hypothetical sense." Khalani voices into the mix. "I am curious if any other has a sense of popularity contest to this baronial selection."

Lockler raises his eyebrows over towards Khalani and nods slowly, "Your excellency, is very much correct on the matter. Yet it does have a foundation in both history and our culture. A unpopular lord or baron generally doesn't last to long. Does there not need to be some measure of acceptance of the people?"

"There's always going to be that undertone." Ethan muses, "Be it true, or a denial of true reasons why a person wouldn't be chosen. Many times people have to have a reason." He nods slowly, "I came today because I had questions and concerns, the Duchess answered them. If she follows through with her intent, as I'm sure she will then I have no reason to worry or complain." He smiles towards Khalani, "People will always have their choice, or their 'friend' in the mix." He sighs, "I have stated everytime I've talked to anyone I want what's best for the isle. I just have to have faith now that the Duchess will do that."

"Not the selection," Catelyn corrects Khalani softly, "But perhaps so among the discussion on who people wish to see ascend the position. I will make my decision based upon what I believe best for Draught, regardless of who might yell the loudest or seem to have the most friends." She looks to Lockler and nods, "I agree that people will need to know whomever is selected so the worry that their whole life is about to crumble around them is alleviated."

"No, not the selection.. I did mis-speak." Khalani tips her head in agreement with the duchess. "In the debate surrounding the selection. I have no illusions or doubts about your ability to make your own selection, Your Grace." She quirks her head to Lockler again, considering him and her words as well. "No. An unpopular Baron or Baroness, or Lord or Lady does not last long. However, that being said, there is something to be said for giving that leige opportunity in their own position to learn the ebb and flow of their lands, of their people. Even Lords and Barons who are unexpected choices have shown themselves in history to be great leaders, and well loved by their people."

Cynara arrives from the Plaza del Arte. Cynara has arrived.

Lockler shrugs his shoulders as he spreads out his hands, "I was here to offer my thoughts. Personally I will see what I can do to help whoever gets the position how I can. We shall see. Either way its going to be interesting." When she slips in, it's quiet, Cynara closing the door behind her as silently as possible. There are a few in attendance, so all she does for now is listen, moving along further into the room from the fringes. She doesn't say anything, not yet. Lockler's words are the first ones she catches.

Imani arrives from the Plaza del Arte. Imani has arrived.

Princess Eleanor keeps quiet so that her player may idle but will be back when she can.

It could well be that the Baron Ethos has spent a lot of time tonight holding his tongue. After all, he speaks both with a wealth of experience on the topic of being a purist and a baron, though he also speaks with the weight of implied bias. There is a note of satisfaction when he notices Cynara slinking her way into the auditorium, his attention turning back towards Ethan, Lockler, Catelyn and the rest.

Khalani smiles easily to Lockler. "As I am here to offer my thoughts, even if they are touched by nobility and therefore immediately suspect. I make no claims to being an iron clad authority, I speak only from my observations and experiences." The younger baroness, she's not quite so good at holding her tongue. Mathis has spoken up a couple of times, but now is pretty much back in quiet note taking mode, using the non-inked side of his quill to poke at Lani for a moment playfully.

"There is truth to the notion that an unpopular noble can lose their position," Catelyn agrees. "But as the Baroness has stated, I would hope that no matter who is elevated to the Baronial seat, the people of Miller's Isle will have patience enough to allow their new liege time to prove themselves." The Duchess' attention shifts to the back of the room for a moment, a small nod given to Cynara as she makes her way into the auditorium.

"Have we any other questions or concerns to bring up? Anything we might like to say?" Her gaze moves specifically between Ethan and Cynara right now, and then around the rest of the group as she waits.

It says something when a matter has everyone in such a stir that it makes it into the back rooms of the infirmary. That, surprisingly perhaps, is very much the case this evening, and the healer known as Imani decided to take a little break from the work she's been set to. Wrapped in a dark cloak, she keeps to the back of the auditorium and quietly slips into the seat nearest the door that she can find, even as she begins to peruse the audience to see who else is in attendence.

Though Ethan doesn't say much, he does turn towards Lockler and gives a slight nod, "That's what this is about, my friend. Stating your opinion. It's good you care about your home." As Cynara enters he gives her a bit of a funny smile, "Hello there, cousin." He speaks softly. As the Duchess speaks he rubs his head, picking his mind. However he falls silent, reading over his notes.

"And experience," Cynara begins, a small smile cast upon Khalani, and to the rest of those inside the hall. She pauses, resting a hand on the chair, looking up at the vaulted ceilings and taking in the atmosphere of the proceedings. "Is something both contenders for the seat can benefit from." There is a pause, before she continues. "The fact of the matter is no matter where one is born, there are greater things to consider. Education. The willingness to rule. The soundness of one's judgment. These lessons don't come from Miller's Isle alone, but from all over. Lessons that come from one's own personal, human experience while living. And a straightforward observation could be made in that neither I nor my esteemed cousin..." A nod to Ethan. "Have any prior experience in ruling a single land, and the capacity of such therefore cannot be determined alone by where one is raised, or whether one follows a single Faith. Either way, whoever becomes Baron or Baroness of Miller's Isle will have to depend on his or her lords' counsel, people who aren't just intimately acquainted with the land, but also with how it runs. I don't think a leader has ever thrived, especially a transitional one, without the aid of skilled advisors."

"My personal opinion, through a practical standpoint is...anyone who claims the seat will still have to learn. A clean slate to start with - because anyone who does so will have to be reminded that one cannot rule effectively without information from the best sources. Keeping that in mind, while I do understand that where a leader's roots are from pose an issue, it shouldn't be as important an issue as whether the most suitable candidate is willing to learn, and has the mental acumen to learn quickly."

Settling back in her seat, Khalani seems to take a cue from Baron Ethos and settles to a far more quiet stance, listening to the conversations going on in the room, the debates and questions at hand.

"Experience will come, time will come." Ethan speaks, "As for willingness to lead, intelligence, and so forth." He breathes out, eyes playing over his notes, "I think both miss Dhaval and I could claim our own backgrounds and prides in life." He looks up, "The issue was never about who is suited to lead." Ethan shakes his head softly, "The citizens have come, they have voiced their concerns. Whether or not they are valid, they exist." Ethan stretches his back a moment, "There is an old saying, that actually people may not think of when thinking of inventors, or scientists. Basically, as I recall, it's that emotions have no reason. They are emotions." He sighs, "People are going to be concerned, people are going to question faith and allegience. I have spoken with Cynara, and I know her to be a good person with good morals and good intent. I don't doubt that." He shakes his head, "Never would, however it's obvious from these meeting that the concern is there. Honestly, I have shared in some of it. I am human, I am a citizen of that Barony and sometimes there is a sense of pride for homeland." He lifts his eyes, "The concern, as I see it rises from the fact that this is our home. This is our people." He shrugs, "Isn't it fair, and isn't it human for the citizens to be weary of outsiders?" He shrugs, "I'm not saying it's right. However, the concern? It does exist."

Catelyn too settles into silence to allow others the time to speak, to ask their questions and get answers from the those present.

"I wonder how this same situation would go if it were Ethos without a leader," Oksana states, though merely in observation. There is no accusation or bitterness in her tone at all. "Would the people of Ethos stand up to make sure that it was one of their own? How would they react to someone from Miller's Isle stepping into the seat?"

"But in the end that is the issue that should matter," Cynara points out to Ethan. "In choosing who gets the seat in the end. It would be pitiable should Miller's Isle end up with a leader who is ill qualified or incapable of giving them what they need. I understand the concern exists, but since it does I will have to assume that it has always existed. It isn't as if Miller's Isle has never had or known a Purist for a leader. It has. And it has thrived just fine - not everyone is a purist, nor have I found any instances in where Purism was forced upon its people and I think any leader would be doing himself or herself a great disservice should he or she choose that path. Innovation is still climbing the chartered curve which I understand is steeper than anywhere else's. In light of what history has proven, such a concern shouldn't be the focus." To Oksana's question, she looks over at Athar. "What do you think, Baron Ethos?"

"A point I made, but was ignored on." Offers Lockler with a hint of amusment as he offers a last bow to all the nobles and royalty and turns to take his leave.

"Forgive me for saying, Master Locke," Athar finally pipes up, "But it sounds as if you are trying to argue two sides of the same coin. You profess no concern with the qualifications of character of the claimant you're discussing, but then explain that you share the concerns of these citizens of Miller's Isle that worry. I should like it if you were clear," he tells the man, "Because in listening to you, I get the feeling as if you are trying to sound supportive of Her Grace and whatever she might choose, but stoke the 'rightness' of second-guessing Her Grace's decision at the same time." He does not immediately answer Oksana nor Cynara, instead watching Ethan.

"There is no solid evidence that you would be the best leader." Ethan states clearly, there is no bitterness are cruel tone to it, "You are not the only option. I don't mean to sell myself. This is the situation, this is how it exists. These people who have come are citizens, I don't ask them to support me. In fact, other than the one woman, I don't know if they do." He adds, "I mean, take it a step further. What is there was a Duke of Green Fields who had no heirs, his sister left to marry a Guardian Baron and birthed a son who was born and raised a Guardian. If the Duke died, do you truly believe Green Fields would not have a problem with a son born of Guardians taking control of their Isle?" He then turns towards Athar and listens to his words, "You know, that's the problem with the position we're in. I have never heard anyone here take a solid stance. In fact, it seems people are afraid. People are afraid to take a solid stance because once their words are uttered, it means people can begin to stir the pot that is against what they speak." Ethan breathes out, "However, I've never minded not having everyone's support. Because I know deep down that all I want is to see these people and my home happy, safe and progressed." He shrugs, "So if you want to know my side? As I've stated. I do support the decision of the Duchess because it's her duty and her right to make it. However, if an outside takes sole control of that Barony, I will be upset. I will feel like the voice of our land was ignored." He smiles, "I know that means that there will be points you can make against me, I know that means there will be people who believe I want a lesser Baron so long as they are local." He shrugs, "But if I claim no opinion, the in the end someone will deny my words for that reason as well." He shakes his head, "I'm not a debator. My words, my views the don' adapt on a dime. I will listen and I will always take from the wisdom of others. However, I will never deny my beliefs merely to make a point. Never."

Lockler raises his eyebrows, then breaks out into a soft laugh as he shakes his head, "I suppose her grace of course in her decision. Yet was this not to express the concerns of the people? Both sides must be addressed, not just one. Qualifications, regionality, none of those in truth in the end never matter. Its the perception that does, and right now a very negative and adverse perceptive if the one being held. With concerns about their future and ability to live their lives as they have with somebody of a contrasting viewpoint being suggested for it. As for the rightness of second guessing, the very nature of even having this discussion and even being here is a second guess is it not? People will always second guess other people, be they commoner, or noble. What makes the difference is that her grace has given sound answers to the questions given to her so far. Yes I will support my Duchess fully, yet we are people and we do at times have concerns of the choices made for us. That in its very nature is a second guess."

Catelyn takes a moment to point out softly, "Master Locke, while I respect your right to voice your opinion, I would ask that you refrain from speaking for the whole of Miller's Isle. There are a good many who would support whoever I chose because I have been their Duchess for seventeen years and have not yet brought them harm." Ethan shakes his head, "I never meant to speak for the Isle, You Grace. I only said that's how I would feel. I would feel lik eour land was abandoned." He nods, "I don't know who supports me, other than the woman who openly did." He laughs remembering her, "I don't mean to speak for anybody, and if I accidently did, then it was never my intent."

"I do not think I ever heard Mistress Dhaval claim she was the only choice for Miller's Isle, Mater Locke." Mathis offers quietly.

Catelyn nods to Ethan and offers him a kind smile, "I appreciate the clarification in that, Master Locke. Thank you."

Isabelle arrives from the Plaza del Arte. Isabelle has arrived.

Ethan turns towards Mathis, "It was merely in response to subjecting Miller's Isle to a lesser leader. And as you said, she isn't the only choice. Which is why the issue of homeland has arisen."

"You are very right, sir," Athar says as he looks towards Lockler, "Tonight is and was about the people offering their opinions on the matter. Sharing their concerns and their thoughts so that Her Grace would have the wisdom of her folk in determining what course she will chart for Miller's Isle. And as a Draughten, I thank you for doing so. It is not always easy to make one's opinion known, especially where there are some whom might wait in the rafters, ready to tear at your words." Looking back to Ethan, he does have more to say on the matter. "You've now stated an opinion, and clear enough. But to sit there and claim you have no qualms with the choice of Miss Dhaval, or worry for her ethics or faith or ability to lead does not sit evenly with your half-expressed concerns, or words that you wish to share in private with Her Grace, rather than in this open forum. You are entitled to your opinion, and have now stated it. You /do/ take issue with the idea of Miss Dhaval being chosen. Now that you have made that clear, I invite you to explain precisely why, given that you trust your Duchess and her choice, that you would feel her choice in this would not be as trustworthy as the rest of her decisions. Outsider or not, Master Locke, you and Miss Dhaval are Draughten both. Your opinions, like others, have been heard. So our Duchess now /knows/ the reasons you would be concerned. If you trust Her Grace, then why question her choice, if she makes it clear that the concern is not valid, but choosing Miss Dhaval?"

Right, Athar's got this. Mathis shushes, leans next to Lani to speak quietly with her, and back to his notes.

She furrows her brows at Ethan. "I never said I was. I am only addressing the concern that you and I know very well exists, and that is the consequence of having someone not from the land, and raised in the Faith, having a real possibility of claiming the seat. All I am saying is that while ideally a leader would be chosen from one's own, sometimes it doesn't happen by the way the current system has been set up. I am only illustrating the fact that Miller's Isle thrived under a Purist leader, since we are all left with the impression that a few citizens of Miller's Isle are concerned about that. I thought I made that quite clear, cousin." She looks over at Lockler. "And like I said before, this isn't the first time a situation like this has happened, nor will it be the last. While perceptions are negative, I disagree that it's the be-all, end-all of everything. Like I said, since this isn't the first time this has happened, I would have to assume that such a perception has always been there, perhaps not as vociferously expressed as it has been in the last few days, and still the Isle has managed to move on. Anyone who gains the seat will have to prove himself or herself, there's no going around that no matter where one hails from. And if a leader must be subjected to a negative light? That will only test his or her mettle. I find it a challenge, and not something to be abhorred or even to be looked at an equally negative light." "It is because the main faith of those from Ethos is Purism," Oksana observes without looking up from her note taking. "And the main faith of Miller's Isle is science. You cannot truly bring religion into science." Here, she does look up. "And speaking of someone who was raised within Miller's Isle, along with my long history of family there, I can state that it would make me wary to have someone that did not put science and learning above more traditional faith and religion."

Lockler chuckles softly and smiles, "Well spoken your Excellency.' Offering the baron of all things, a wink. "I honestly think the shake up will be good. Its going to be rough no matter how its happens." a glance to Cynara and a easy going smile at that, "Sounds like your well up for the challenge." A glance to Oksana and smiles, "Like putting a guardian who didn't like magic in charge of a lordship or barony on mists might have."

Ethan laughs shaking his head, "As I already stated, your Excellency, I would support the decision of the Duchess because I support the Duchess herself. Just because you don't agree with every choice doesn't mean you don't support it. She rules this isle. I don't. This forum is for concerns." He continues on, "If you were here for the whole meeting, you would have known I actually am perfectly fine with Purists. In fact my Cousin, the Baroness was training to be one. I help your sister give out bread at the docks whenever I have a chance." He continues on, "Now you would stand here, and ask me to slander Cynara? Why? Just because I don't think she is the best choice doesn't mean I think her inneffective. Just because I think that there is an issue of pride in homeland and ties to the land you rule doesn't mean I think she can't do the job." He stands tall, "I've stated my concerns. I've stated them more than once. If you wish me to keep talking, to dig a scar on a woman that I actually like, then you are..." He shakes his head, "As I've stated, as many have come and states already, she was raised by a different lordship and different land." Ethan shrugs simply, "Now the real quesiton is why you have a problem with that statement. I've already espressed examples upon exmples randing from imperial traditions to civilian traditions that follow the same lines. So why is it so hard to see that it exists?"

"Well, Mists would be a slightly different case, I believe," Cynara says, though she flashes Lockler a warm smile back at what he says, as well as a grateful dip of her head. "As a culture, they are markedly different and the way their traditions are structured, paths to succession in their case are less fluid than ours." Thank you, Mistian friends. She makes a note to hug Tobias for schooling her a bit on such things. Glancing at Ethan with her name and 'slander' in the same sentence, she couldn't help but shake her head, but the smile never wanes. There's something to be said about amiable disagreements. "I don't think the Baron Ethos meant it like that, cousin," she tells Ethan. To Oksana, she nods. "Agreed, and such a wariness is reasonable. I agree with that. But I also firmly believe that in time those perceptions could be overcome, albeit perhaps not completely, for as I stated that perception was always there - but acceptance is possible, as with what happened with the first Baroness who came along and was a Purist, but also managed to participate in the Isle's community of inventors."

"Actually the first Purist Baroness was her mother, our Aunt." Ethan says softly as Cynara speaks, "She gave up the religion because of the issues she had with the religion being too confining. She believed she could still keep the values without the strict code to follow."

"I've been here listening for quite a while, Master Locke. And unlike yourself, I am not new to these matters. I am not asking for you to malign a dear friend of my sister's, nor someone who can claim kinship to my own Lord of Meritas. Suggesting such is, at best, incorrect," Athar tells the man. "What I have asked for is for you to be clear. I am not satisfied by the commentary that you would be upset, or that you feel there is some threat because someone is not born in Miller's Isle. The Keeper is not born of any of the four Isles, and yet we are all quite content beneath his rule. If you've concerns, as it seems you have, I'm merely asking you to make them plain. Given that you said you've no quarrel with the person of Miss Cynara Dhaval, I should not think doing so would at all approximate an attack upon the woman, but rather a valiant defense of your ideas."

Lydia arrives from the Plaza del Arte. Lydia has arrived. Lydia steps to the Auditorium Back.

Lydia slips into the auditorium, her steps a picture of easy grace as she slides into one of the rear seat after a curtsey towards those of noble stature.

Lockler just glances to everybody then to Cynara as he considers, "I think we should ask the question that bothers people the most. Since we have the person in question right here. What are your views on science and the progress of said science?" No he isn't even skimming the question but being blunt and to the point

As the talk takes a definite turn in what be a negative direction as to what can and can not coexist with faith, Imani crosses her arms over her chest and sinks into her seat in the back of the auditorium. Eyebrows lift briefly, followed by a most distinct narrowing of her eyes and downward turn of her mouth. Athar and Cynara, at least, seem to be raising good counterpoints. Thank Providence for people with the gifting for debate.

"Indeed, but there's no rule that says that a Purist cannot be an inventor or a person of science, and vice versa. My cousin, the Lord of Meritas, for one, and several healers who I am fortunate enough to meet and foster friendships with," Cynara tells Ethan. To Lockler, she inclines her head. "I think much good could be wrought by progress. Not just by science and technology, but in education, agriculture. There is no question that I believe in a higher power, but I believe that higher power works -through- the brilliant minds of others to better our world. Innovation is a -good- thing. I don't think it should be demonized at all." Ethan shrugs, "Just because you aren't content with my answer doesn't mean it's not my answer. Different people have different things that matter to them. As I've just stated I wouldn't stand here and mock Oksana for being worried about a Purist running our home. I wouldn't decry Lockler for his concerns." Ethan shakes his head, "Now would I be upset if anyone thought me a bad leader because of my background in Business, or anything else you could find against me." He takes a step to the side, shifting weight off of his leg, "Just because my concerns don't seem important or valid to you, does not mean they aren't valid or important to others. It's not my right to say these things matter to you, the Duchess, anyone. However they do matter to some and to me." Mathis askes Cynara, playing advocate on both sides, it seems. "Mistress Dhaval, how would you could that with the common Purist conception that the use of machines is to promote laziness and only through hard and manual work does one serve Providence?"

"A solid answer with a open mind. Science indeed is just a tool, and it can be used many ways not just one." Lockler offers with a brilliant flash of a smile to Cynara, "Yet he does bring up a point." Motioning to Mathis as he considers Cynara, "Hard work is a subjective term to the perception of what is hard. Yet everything we do is a from of science, reading, writing, from farm equipment to the mechanics we use from a door to a full ship. If it truly was just manual labor we would be tilling the fileds with our hands and living in huts." Grinning a moment, "There is a difference from depending on sciences and using them to do less, to using them to help and for needs not wants." Shrugging his shoulders, "AT least how I feel."

Athar's brow rises. "I've not mocked you, nor have I stated your concerns do not matter to me, Master Locke," he assures the man, though his voice goes a touch cool, "I've asked you to explain why they matter." She lifts her brows at Mathis. "Well, Master Cardiff, I doubt the person who actually built those objects was in any way lazy. I'm sure there was a lot of sweat and blood involved in the creation of those things." She grins at him afterwards, the brief segue given, before she answers the question afterwards. "Machines are as flawed and as imperfect as their human creators," she tells Mathis. "Things will break down. Living Life itself is never easy, and when one grows older and more responsibilities accumulate, it only gets harder. I see these things as a way to set aside the more trivial aspects of one's day-to-day life so one could focus on other numerous, pressing matters. I am a student of Faith, but I am also a big fan of efficiency." She looks over at Lockler and gives him a small grin. "And I agree with that certainly, sir, that hard work is subjective. The toils of the mind are certainly different than the toils of the body, but one shouldn't be favored over the other. They are of equal import."

Mathis nods for a moment, making a note.

"Because every land deserve their hero, Your Excellency." He shrugs, "Have you ever seen a man in a bar, proud to call his homeland his own. A fielder talking about the beautiful horse he has back home?" He laughs, "As you said last time we spoke, the line is broken. I am not a Lancaster, nor is Miss Dhaval. Whomever takes this role will need to rebuild the line, to build trust and respect." He nods, "Those are the words you told me, and I believe them, truly. However, I believe, in taking away their own homeland leader. To let someone from another land be their Baron. You are denying them some of that pride, and making it that much harder to reestablish the line."

"If they are not from Miller's Isle, then they should be arranged into a marriage to someone who is," Oksana opines plainly. Respectfully, though.

Princess Eleanor takes a glance to Ethan and than Cynara when Oksana says that. Obviously thinking of something but again no words come. "given time to get over the initial entry hump, I think you will do well." Offers Lockler with a smile to the woman. Then glances to the others considering

Catelyn continues to stand by and just quietly observe the discussion, watching each speaker with a shrewd, measuring gaze.

"I stand by my words, Master Locke," Athar assures the man. "I've asked only to understand what you are sharing you are concerned about... That was the purpose of tonight. We already know that people are concerned, at least some," he observes, "It is important to understand why. Thank you for helping me understand." Dark eyes, naturally so, travel in the direction of his ward at her statement, to which he observes, "A sensible suggestion. That is how things are most often done."

"Such a thing would be out of either of our hands," Cynara remarks to the opinion diplomatically, regarding herself and Ethan. "Hence I shouldn't remark upon it. Lockler's generous comment earns him another smile, but she falls silent now, hearing Athar's back and forth with Ethan. She folds her hands behind her back - however despite looking exhausted, she only looks energized. This was a debate, after all, and she's a sucker for most of them. <OOC> Cynara says, "Er. despite = instead of"

Lockler chuckles softly, 'You are young yet. May want to see if there are any from the area that you get along with and like, and suggest them. I know many are willing to look at good suggestions instead of the decision completely abritary." Winking to Cynara, "For you though, it is going to need to be somebody who can challenge your mind, clearly it is something sound about it." Perhaps catching her love of debates as he glances to Ethan and Athar considering.

Ethan shifts his eyes towards Cynara, the man isn't an idiot, "As she has said, that's out of our hands. And if that is the path taken." He stops there, obviously not wanting to overstep his boundaries. He then turns towards Athar, "I never hold any ill will. I hope you understand a bit more of my concern. It's simple, but sometimes some of the most powerful things in life are the simple ones." Howeve rhe takes a moment to consider the Princess, eventually glancing away towards the Duchess.

Meliana arrives from the Plaza del Arte. Meliana has arrived.

She laughs lightly. "I would certainly hope so," Cynara tells Lockler agreeably, rubbing the back of her neck. "I thrive in challenges, I suppose the gleeful expression on my face every time someone makes a verbal riposte is a dead giveaway....and not all of them have come from me tonight." Everyone has had something to share, and she could barely restrain herself from being so ludicrously happy about it. But since the questions and counterpoints have ceased to come at her, she looks over at the Princess and the Duchess.

Princess Eleanor looks over to the Duchess, tonight is her night. She leaves it up to Cate to decide if the evening has drawn to a close.

"Do any have any final questions they would like to ask before we call this discussion to a close?" Catelyn asks generally, looking around to the face of each individual before her.

Lockler grins to Cynara, "I hope this isn't the last time we meet then. A pleasure to meet you. Lockler Doevern." He offers easily enough. THen glances to the Duchess, "This has been more enlightening considering the negativity of the rumors. A pleasure Your Grace."

"None Your Grace." Mathis says, rising with Lani, who is looking rather tired, herself to prepare to walk her back to the suite, gesturing to Hammel so he's ready. "Except to thank you sincerely for holding this forum."

"Cynara Dhaval. The pleasure is mine, Master Doevern," she says and rather sincerely at that. At what Catelyn says, she turns to the speaker and nods. "None from me, Your Grace, Your Highness," she replies from where she stands. "Thank you very much."

"Indeed, thank you Your Grace," Athar echoes Mathis' sentiment. "It has been enlightening for all aspects and sides of this particular issue," he observes, and nods towards Ethan and then Cynara. "And thank you to both of you for being so willing to answer the questions put to you."

Meliana has slipped quietly into the back of the room, but apparently, things are just wrapping up. She stands against the wall, arms behind her back, propping the wall to keep the ceiling from falling in. Princess Eleanor shakes her head no when Catelyn makes that statement. Looking around the room she finally says, "I want to expression my apperication in all of your willingness to be cordial with each other."

"I'm perfectly well." Ethan muses, taking a moment to consider things, "I think I'm done." He stretches his arms above his head picking up his notebook.

"Good," Catelyn says with quite the pleased smile, "I am glad that we've all had a chance to do this. I hope that any further debate now can happen person to person, face to face, and not by anonymous notes posted in the plaza. This is far more productive, and dare I say, a lot more enjoyable. Thank you all so much for coming, and for your willingness to listen to one another. As always, if you've lingering concerns you are always welcome to speak with me."